Comments on: Was it a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

By: Margaret

Margaret — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:23:46 +0000

You’re right, Survivor, I did win even though my adversaries still believe I am this terrible, crazy person who can’t let things go. I am stronger and have a deeper faith in God. I understand and respect Christianity in a way I never did before. I am currently in a church where the rector is well respected but who freely admits his mistakes. I have been encouraged to run a bible study in my home and they have bought my book, “Not of My Making” and encourage me to speak about it. When I drive past my old church I feel sorry for them. They never got it. I am in a much better place now. I thank God for that. Only wish I didn’t have to go through the fire to get here.

By: A Survivor

A Survivor — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:06:56 +0000

Margaret, you make a very good point about how easy it can be to convince others of our being a problem. After all…they are the leaders. If you admit that the abused is, in fact, being abused…especially when it involves leaders…well, that does require making a decision and taking a stand.

In my case, it was a therapist…but I think the same principle applies. Her clients rely upon her…perhaps even more than a congregant relies upon the spiritual leader. The idea that the one who is helping them and supporting them could be doing wrong is simply anathema. “Don’t speak of it!”

It is sad, really. I mean…what kind of spiritual guidance are you getting from a leader who abuses? What kind of real therapeutic help are you getting from a therapist who abuses? Regardless of the situation, these people are being deceived and hurt…and they don’t even see it happening.

It is called “putting someone on a pedestal”. What a dangerous thing to do…as if a person can do no wrong…can make no mistakes. We ALL make mistakes. We who can admit that are the ones who will grow and get strong. We who can accept that those who lead and guide us can also make mistakes will have a healthier relationship with them.

Kudos to you for standing up for yourself. I am trying to do that for myself. It is difficult. In many ways, I am still hiding due to the fury that was unleased against me and is still being unleashed against my reputation. *sigh*

Reading your book was encouraging…because you fought back…and I think won. No…you didn’t get people to change their minds about you…but you found a way to overcome the hindrances and moved on to become your self.

By: Margaret

Margaret — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:48:45 +0000

toxicsheep – I have often feared that I would not be believed once people spoke with my adversaries. I believe Rev. Karen was often able to convince others that I was unstable and to be wary of me. At Murray UU I suspect Gretchen convinced people that I was a homophobe and a closet lesbian. To what extent Rev. Karen and Gretchen believed what they told others, I don’t know. I also think it only takes a suggestion to convince others of such things since by believing Rev. Karen and Gretchen meant they had to do nothing. If they believed me then the moral burden would be heavier.

Dan – Thank you for your kind words and for reading my book. I, too, am uncertain Daphne finished the book. She made no mention of the Lutheran Church or any other fact from the latter half of the book. She was probably turned off and put the book down. Individuals who value civility are blind to the daily abuses that occur in our schools, churches and workplaces. They prefer to blame victims so they do not have to take any action.

By: Dan Weaver

Dan Weaver — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:48:57 +0000

Spent last night and this morning reading your book and disagree with Daphne’s review. I don’t believe that Daphne read the entire book. She mentions that you were abused by a UU church but fails to mention your experience in the Lutheran church.

The abuse of people by pastors and church boards, by wrongly appealing to the Bible, to harmony, to authority, etc. is rampant. I have left more than one church because of it. I usually left quietly but not without pain. Dr. Jones had the courage to try to force these churches to look in the mirror and see what they were doing.

I am impressed by Dr. Jones’ successful marriage and seemingly well rounded children. These are evidence of her ability to get along with people.

It’s time to stop saying that it takes two to create conflict. That is true in some instances. But sometimes there is one person who is right and another person who is wrong.

I also appreciate that Dr. Jones is unwilling to accept cheap forgiveness. Cheap forgiveness like cheap grace is worthless. If we want someone to forgive us for abusing them, then we must not only say we are sorry, but confess our wrongdoing to everyone involved, make restitution and change our negative behavior.

By: toxicsheep

toxicsheep — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:04:22 +0000

I think some of the spiritually abused are afraid to speak out because of the power of the abuser to look so innocent-
I know my abuser would love to sue my pants off(actually, she most likely prays I’ll keel over dead) because I have spoken out about her crimes.

By: Margaret

Margaret — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:57:31 +0000

When I was bullied as a child and as an adult I kept trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. I was called insensitive so I tried to be more sensitive. I was told I was thin skinned so I tried not to cry when I was hurting. Nothing worked. The bullying continued. What has worked is standing up for myself and saying clearly that being bullied or abused has nothing to do with me but everything to do with the bully/abuser.

By: A Survivor

A Survivor — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:16:02 +0000

I can appreciate people wanting to be fair. However, if someone is going to make any kind of statement about a situation at all…then they should make sure they get all the facts.

I have to agree that the idea of both sides always being at fault is the lazy way out.

It is NEVER a child’s fault that they are abused by an adult. It is amazing to me how many times I read about how an adult is saying that the child is somehow at fault. I have even heard that said of tiny children! It is appalling!

An adult who was abused during childhood is typically more vulnerable by default. Child bullies can grow up to be adult bullies. Adult bullies know how to spot a vulnerable adult just as child bullies know how to spot a vulnerable child.

Even IF it were a “fault” on both sides, that does not mean that the fault is equal. As an adult we DO have choices. If we make bad ones…as in sticking around instead of getting the heck out of there…it could be said that a little bit of the culpability goes on the abused. However, it would be more of a 5/95 sharing…certainly not a 50/50 deal. I believe it is especially the case when the abused one is really trying hard to work through the established protocols for handling disputes.

It can also take some time before the one being abused finally gets it that there is not going to be any resolution, resulting in them removing themselves from the situation. Were they at fault because they stuck around trying to make it work? Trying to work things out? NO! They might not have been quick to wise up…but that does not make them at fault for being abused.

There is a LOT that could be said on this topic. I am glad that you are bringing it up, Margaret! Life is not so simple as to just get away with saying that it is both parties’ fault.

By: Margaret W Jones

Margaret W Jones — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:12:23 +0000

Provender, That is so well said. Often people are trying to be fair but don’t realize how much damage they are doing. I have often heard, “when there is conflict both parties are fault.” From my church experiences I have learned that isn’t necessarily so. A major step in a trauma survivor’s recovery is when they realize they were not at fault. Standing on the sidelines and saying it is both parties fault is also the lazy man’s approach. It relieves you the responsibility of figuring out who is doing what to whom and you can pretend to be an innocent bystander. Like you I have often said these kind of things when I have been aware of conflicts at work and church. I hope now I will ask more questions.

By: Provender

Provender — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:46:06 +0000

One of the hardest parts of spiritual abuse is not being believed — or even being blamed. People want to believe the best of human nature. They don’t want to believe some people are just plain evil. They look for ways to spread the blame around so no one person looks utterly malevolent. I would have done the same thing before ending up on the receiving end of abuse. Unfortunately, there are malevolent people out there who can cause a lot of damage. By trying to be fair to abusers, those on the outside can be extremely unfair to the abused.